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簡介
2022年第三場難民路徑共筆工作坊邀請到《活為難民：那年的我，與印度德里的流亡藏人們》作者彭皓昀分享。
「難民生活」是一組看似平易近人的詞彙，在概念上從不勾起我們對於深澳哲理的遐想。然而就活在台灣的我們而言，依自身日常的生活經驗仔細地想想，難民似乎總是存在於遠方，他們僅是一種類型，靜靜的待在那裡。「生活」是《活為難民》這本書關注的話題，我們對流亡藏人的歷史脈絡、人口概況、生活條件或許並不陌生，但至於他們上哪兒工作？每日午餐吃些什麼？假日與朋友去哪打發時間？近乎毫無頭緒。
然而當我開始與他們成為朋友，開始發現了些事情，他們跳舞、他們讀書、他們祈禱、他們抗議。對流亡藏人來說，「吃飯、讀書、賺錢、跳舞、旅遊」的重要性從來不亞於對「自由西藏」的渴望，在這意義下，他們如何「吃飯、讀書、賺錢、跳舞、旅遊」，成了我思考難民現象的核心課題。
講者簡介
彭皓昀
國立交通大學電機工程學系學士、人文社會學系族群與文化研究所碩士。曾是一名受自然科學訓練的背包客，因旅途風景刺激而被社會科學吸引，開始關注難民議題研究。目前正學習成為一名社會學旅行者，以散步、觀察與聊天八卦為方法，不斷思考自身所處的生活世界。
著作：《活為難民：那年的我，與印度德里的流亡藏人們》https://www.books.com.tw/products/0010922601
共筆討論資料(點擊►看更多)：
參與者提問
- 達蘭薩拉（Dharamshala）與德里的差別？
- 藏人對德里的幫助包含哪些面向？ （參與城市的行動、產業？）
- 為什麼圖博難民會在印度南部形成聚落？以地緣關係來說，這裡離原生地較遠。
- 德里當地居民對於藏人的觀感如何？待在印度的藏人究竟有多大的比例想要返回西藏？達蘭薩拉和印度其他城市的藏人對於西藏和中國關係的思考有沒有根本的差異？藏人能夠有相當程度的經濟活動，是否跟印度政府給他們的身分有關係？很多其他地方的難民受限身分，而無法進行檯面上的經濟生活。
- 請問難民的意識形塑雖然是從田野研究所觀察結論出來的，但就像你提到的難民其實是一個廣大的團體，就像縮小的社會縮影，會受到很多社會經濟或教育程度的影響，所以會好奇這些你所歸納出來的難民意識會不會受到當初選擇的田野field不同，會選擇或有能力到這落腳的難民樣本也不同，可以觀察到的難民態度想法不同？例：可以能力旅行到德里附近，並在MT（Majnu ka Tilla）落腳的難民可能在族群中社教經濟程度較好的族群，所以他們對生活和未來想像也可能較為正面？
- 就您的觀察，是否發生過經濟生活與理想之間的衝突？
- 想請問一下你剛才有提到幾個觀看視角，但好像沒有提到你的觀察/觀點。例如希望：在MT的藏人對未來是有希望的嗎？ 對於回到西藏是有期待的嗎？ 還是對於在印度的生活是有希望的嗎？例如認同：他們對於西藏、中國、印度的認同？
- 社會制度：他們有產生跟其他社會不同的社會制度嗎？
- 你在那邊印象深刻的生活感/生活方式？
- 長期難民（N個世代）在他國寄人籬下是否要求準國民待遇（像巴勒斯坦人、圖博人，羅興亞人）？
- 中印邊境糾紛的時候，印度政府會把藏人當談判籌碼嗎？
- 生活樣態會受到時空背景的限制。二十年前我在德里看到的藏人生活情況，十七年前在尼泊爾看到的藏人生活情況，很明顯跟今日您所見有所不同。而這些都跟當時空背景之下的「國家政策」限制脫不了關係。想請問這幾十年來的歷史中，是否有哪些改變，影響到藏人生活逐步的改變？
- 南印度和德里會有藏人村最主因就是印度的土地規劃？你在那邊印象深刻的生活感/生活方式？你享受哪些層面？
- 在 Majnu Ka Tilla 的語言使用是什麼？ 英語？ Hindi ? 藏語？
- 請問流亡藏人，會不會因其宗教信仰，與其他難民有本質上的不同？宗教信仰在流亡藏人日常生活的實踐與意義？
- 感覺若把把難民視為有血有肉，為生活而努力的一群人，思考的ways forward就會回到收容的國家 / 組織如何提供難民基礎的「生活條件」？
- 或許MT並不是個難民「營」？ 您似乎有意避談國家政策，然而許多社會經濟支持也跟政策制度的設計避不了關係，不是嗎？
演講／問答紀錄
- 「人類的移動」都是歷史性的常態，但活在「國家治理」的框架下，移動變得困難
- 「現在國家」的治理技術也導致「難民回家」好像是很必然的選項
- 對於「難民」的想像十分扁平、被刻板化的想像
- 難以進入難民營、難以與其他社會群體接觸
- 難民營開展 ─ 開放的難民空間
- 關注生命經驗（
- 知道難民的人數數字，卻不知道如何他們如何生活
- 同一群難民在營區和市區生活起來的區別
- 3000-5000名藏人居住在MT，與其他藏人居住區有段距離
- 只要跟經濟活動有關，就要來德里
- 達蘭薩拉的研究太多，多聚焦在政策、體制等討論
- 流亡藏人與印度社會的互動
- 想知道三件事：跟流亡社會的關係、和德里這座城市的關係為何、和鄰里的關係
- 「活」：生活中如何作為一位「難民」
- 拯救西藏的品牌辣椒醬
- 透過賣東西述說理念，透過販賣獲得經濟穩定
- 從難民營到難民城
- 印度政府有制度性地安置流亡藏人，但德里沒有
- 積極和拉德克人溝通，拉達克人MT南邊建立據點，把佛教帶進來
- 逃到都市的流亡藏人被拉達克人庇護（相近文化與宗教）
- 身分不同、制度差異
- 難民不是同質性極高的群體，內部差異也很大
- 達賴喇嘛多元形象，不一定是要是神聖的宗教領袖
- MT成為印度網紅景點，人們並不畏懼接近
- 對於自己未來的想像是甚麼？不一定要回到自己的國家
- 難民安置如何不要這麼像是一種「責任」
- 日復一日的平凡生活中可以產生力量
- 「共同體」成為新的共同體
- 疫情期間，流亡藏人挨家挨戶的發口罩
- 藏印合資企業（如大型旅行社，因為申請執照需要印度公民身分）
- 改變不一定只能從法律和制度層面改變
- 他們不苦不難
- 在不用劇烈影響規律的條件下，日常中可以如何多接觸一點
- 活在「難民的狀態」，而不是「人就是難民」
- 可以自由求職，但不能夠從事公職
- 營業登記的限制仍讓有些人感到格格不入
- 他者 ─ 互相界定的過程
- 流亡社會的階級
- 不一定要一輩子為了一個政治理念而活著
- 經濟發展對於自由西藏的理念減弱？
- 不同世代的想像
- 文化上的親緣性
- 印度政府曾組織熟悉山域的流亡藏人軍隊
- 習慣法上的土地所有權
- 建立自己的生活空間
FB Event Page
Introduction
The third co-writing workshop on refugee paths in 2022 invited Peng Haoyun, the author of "Living as a Refugee: Me That Year, and the Exiled Tibetans in Delhi, India" to share.
"Refugee life" is a seemingly approachable vocabulary, and conceptually it never arouses our reverie about the philosophy of Shenzhen. However, as far as those of us living in Taiwan are concerned, if we think about it carefully based on our daily life experience, it seems that refugees always exist in the distance. They are just one type, staying there quietly. "Life" is the topic that the book "Living as Refugees" focuses on. We may be familiar with the historical context, demographic profile, and living conditions of the exiled Tibetans, but where do they work? What do you eat for lunch every day? Where to spend time with friends during the holidays? Almost clueless.
But as I started becoming friends with them, I started to notice things. They danced, they read, they prayed, they protested. For Tibetans in exile, "eating, reading, making money, dancing, and traveling" are never less important than their desire for "free Tibet." In this sense, how they "eat, read, make money, dance, and travel" has become a core topic in my thinking about the refugee phenomenon.
Speaker profile
Peng Haoyun
He holds a bachelor's degree from the Department of Electrical Engineering and a master's degree from the Institute of Ethnicity and Culture, Department of Humanities and Sociology, National Chiao Tung University. He was once a backpacker trained in natural sciences. He was attracted to social sciences because of the exciting scenery on his journey, and began to pay attention to research on refugee issues. Currently, I am studying to become a sociological traveler. I use walking, observation, chatting and gossiping as methods to constantly think about the world in which I live.
Book: "Living as a Refugee: Me and the Exiled Tibetans in Delhi, India" https://www.books.com.tw/products/0010922601
Shared discussion materials (click ► to see more):
Participants asked questions
- What is the difference between Dharamshala and Delhi?
- What are the aspects of Tibetans’ help to Delhi? (Participate in city actions and industries?)
- Why did Tibetan refugees form settlements in southern India? In terms of geographical relationship, this place is far away from the original place.
- How do local residents in Delhi feel about Tibetans? What proportion of Tibetans in India want to return to Tibet? Are there fundamental differences in how Tibetans in Dharamsala and other Indian cities think about the relationship between Tibet and China? Does the fact that Tibetans are able to engage in considerable economic activities have something to do with the status given to them by the Indian government? Refugees in many other places are restricted by their status and unable to carry out a normal economic life.
- Although the ideological formation of refugees is based on field research observations, as you mentioned, refugees are actually a broad group, like a miniature of society, and will be affected by many socioeconomic or educational levels. So I am curious whether the refugee consciousness you summarized will be different depending on the field field you originally chose, and whether the sample of refugees who will choose or have the ability to settle here will also be different, and the attitudes and ideas of the refugees that can be observed are different? For example: Refugees who are able to travel to the vicinity of Delhi and settle in MT (Majnu ka Tilla) may belong to a group with a better social, educational and economic level among the ethnic groups, so they may also have a more positive outlook on life and future?
- In your observation, are there any conflicts between economic life and ideals?
- I would like to ask you about several viewing angles you just mentioned, but it seems that you did not mention your observations/opinions. For example, hope: Do Tibetans in MT have hope for the future? Are you looking forward to returning to Tibet? Or is there hope for life in India? For example, identification: How do they identify with Tibet, China, and India?
- Social institutions: Did they produce social institutions that were different from other societies?
- What impressed you about the sense of life/lifestyle there?
- Do long-term refugees (N generations) living in other countries require quasi-national treatment (like Palestinians, Tibetans, Rohingyas)?
- During the border dispute between China and India, will the Indian government use Tibetans as bargaining chips?
- Life style will be limited by time and space background. The living conditions of Tibetans I saw in Delhi twenty years ago and the living conditions of Tibetans I saw in Nepal seventeen years ago are obviously different from what you see today. And these are inseparable from the restrictions of "national policy" in the context of time and space. I would like to ask whether there have been any changes in the past decades that have affected the gradual changes in Tibetan people's lives?
- The main reason why there are Tibetan villages in South India and Delhi is India’s land planning? What impressed you about the sense of life/lifestyle there? What levels do you enjoy?
- What language is used in Majnu Ka Tilla? English? Hindi ? Tibetan?
- I would like to ask, are Tibetans in exile fundamentally different from other refugees because of their religious beliefs? What is the practice and significance of religious beliefs in the daily lives of Tibetans in exile?
- I feel that if we treat refugees as a group of people of flesh and blood, working hard for life, our thinking will go back to how the host country/organization provides basic "living conditions" for the refugees?
- Maybe MT is not a refugee "camp"? You seem to be deliberately avoiding talking about national policies, but many social and economic supports are inevitably related to the design of policy systems, aren't they?
Speech/Q&A transcript
- "Human mobility" is a historical norm, but living under the framework of "national governance" makes mobility difficult.
- The governance technology of the "current country" also makes "refugees go home" seem to be an inevitable option
- The image of “refugees” is very flat and stereotyped
- Difficulties in accessing refugee camps and contact with other social groups
- Refugee camp development─open refugee space
- lived experience）
- We know the number of refugees, but we don’t know how they live.
- The difference between the same group of refugees living in camps and urban areas
- 3000-5000 Tibetans live in MT, some distance from other Tibetan residential areas
- As long as it is related to economic activities, you have to come to Delhi
- There are too many studies on Dharamshala, most of which focus on discussions on policies, systems, etc.
- Interaction between Tibetans in exile and Indian society
- I want to know three things: the relationship with the exile society, the relationship with the city of Delhi, and the relationship with the neighbourhood.
- "Live": How to live as a "refugee"
- The brand of chili sauce that saved Tibet
- Sell things to express your ideas, and gain economic stability through sales.
- From refugee camp to refugee city
- The Indian government has systematically resettled Tibetans in exile, but Delhi has not
- Actively communicated with the Ladakhi people. The Ladakhi people established a stronghold in the south of MT and brought Buddhism in.
- Exiled Tibetans who fled to cities were sheltered by Ladakhis (similar culture and religion)
- Different identities and different systems
- Refugees are not a highly homogeneous group and have great internal differences.
- The Dalai Lama’s diverse image does not necessarily mean he is a sacred religious leader
- MT has become an internet celebrity attraction in India, and people are not afraid to approach it
- What do you imagine for your future? You don’t have to go back to your own country
- How can refugee resettlement not be so much a “responsibility”?
- Power can be generated in ordinary life day after day
- "Community" becomes a new community
- During the epidemic, Tibetans in exile distributed masks door to door
- Tibetan-Indian joint ventures (such as large travel agencies, as Indian citizenship is required to apply for a license)
- Change does not necessarily only come from the legal and institutional levels
- They are neither suffering nor difficult
- How can we have more contact in our daily life without drastically affecting our regularity?
- Live in a "refugee state" rather than "people are refugees"
- You are free to find a job, but you are not allowed to hold public office
- Business registration restrictions still make some people feel out of place
- Others – the process of defining each other
- class in exile society
- You don’t have to live your whole life for a political idea
- Is economic development weakening the idea of a free Tibet?
- Imaginations of different generations
- cultural affinity
- The Indian government once organized an army of exiled Tibetans who were familiar with the mountains.
- Customary land ownership
- Build your own living space